Bring Back The "All 10's" Strat?

[WillyJakkz]

I'm honestly more into the realism and would much prefer using the default coaches settings for strategy etc but since that is not the case, I can say I had no major issue with the 10's strat other than it wasn't realistic as no team irl runs full court press + high pressure + zone all game etc... that was, is, and will always be my main issue with it.

That said, the cap of slowing down the pace has now created an all new "comedy of errors" so to say as it has now hampered several teams that were elite making them suffer considerably as compensation for banning all 10's.

I realize the admins have and are doing whatever they can to make this fun and to keep it up and running and I truly appreciate the countless hours of hard work that has been done so no offense as this is just my opinion and if things stay as is I completely understand and continue to support the admin team and the League.

Just thought it should be brought up.

Also like to mention I dismantled an all 10's strat team in oCSL so I do not feel it is an unfair advantage as there is always a counter measure to every action imho, just have to figure out what it is.

[Jake0890]

You're right on because the more I've played, the more I've noticed how many good teams are now really struggling. Like I said before, the southeast division was built on tens and now it's just a mediocre division rather than a really good one.

Still, no bringing back 10s. There simply is no effective way to beat it and all teams would have more success by running it.

I'm not sure what the change needs to be now thought. Probably a change of engines if you really want to solve the problem. DDS3 is simply a broken game.

[Marcos_Beck]

I hate the all 10's tactics too because it felt so unreal, and all those Caps made league look like more real than it ever has, speaking about game results..

But I agree with Willy. I don't like the Pace CAP nor FCP+DI capped.
I'd rather think about a sum like 35 for say 6 tactics (Zone + FCP + DI + Pace + OffRebs + DefRebs) and CAP the attributes sum at that chosen number. So teams would rather have to focus on maximizing what your team does best, or trying to hide any weakness.

And to be very honest I don't mind if a team uses like 10 in Pace, 3 DI, 10 FCP, 8 Zone, and 2 for each rebound tactic. I mean, sum it all, 10+10+8+3+2+2=35. That team would look to run and force turnovers but would not board the ball and play intense D, so he maybe will average like 120 and concede 120. But Hey, at least that GM is playing the way he wants. Then you have a contrast of styles. Like, MEM and DET would like to board, play at a slow pace and defend. Wolves would love to play a run n gun style, Celtics could play a hybrid game with a lot of zoning.. I'd play a slow paced, high DI, low FCP, high Boards tactics.. I mean, that way it does not guarantee that results will look like NBA games, but hey, at least you can really do anything you want with your team, you can bring players that fits your style.. Just like the NBA teams does.
It's almost like using coach settings but instead of being locked to coaches' philosophies, you can set your own, try to change it if it's not working.. And by capping the sum you prevent the All 10's strategies.
Also with drives Capped at 50% we solve a lot of problems and it takes away nothing from us GMs in terms of setting strategies.
In the end, you look at the NBA.. Pick a run and gun team like the Suns with Nash, they would have 10 in Pace, maybe 5 in zone, 2 in DI, 4 in FCP, 3 in DefRebs and 8 in OffRebs (my opinion).. That would sum up to 32, below the proposed 35 CAP. Or Thibs' Bulls, say 10 DI, 8off boards, 9 defboards, 3 pace, 4 full court, 1zone. Sum 35 and you can see it looks like real NBA Bulls. so the 35 CAP would let you build a team according to real NBA.

Heck, it would be little bit painful to make it work, simmer would have to check every new .tem file to see if it does not exceed the 35 sum. But hey, they already have to check pace and DI/FCP so checking the sum instead of both is no big deal. And also we're grown men no one would try to cheat on this to get an advantage otherwise this GM could be punished.

[WillyJakkz]

Well I for one had a blast figuring out how to get my team to beat that 10's strat which was by having James Harden consistently drive and make teams pay at the FT line due to his high foul drawing rate.

Being able to slow the pace along with the strategy of having a player's player instructions always drive (Harden was in the red which was unprecedented) was capped and in reality was a great counter to all 10's strategies but once drives were capped at 70% it killed a great counter move.

Fast forward to now and we have another imbalance imo and not saying it needs to be solved, it's just killing some teams that were very good last season.

Again pls do not read this as a complaint, I'm just trying to study the numbers etc and I'm not sure I'm seeing a counter to the capped pace of 3 setting as I don't see slowing down to 1 makes enough of a difference since 3 would obviously be a fast paced team and I'm not seeing any other ways to compensate in strategic areas.

[KW]

I think a middle ground is necessary. Cap it at 5 or 6, rather than 3. Teams built their rosters based on that mentality (I didn't personally) and they're getting screwed now.

[Dennis]

So just some thoughts, dont wanna sound harsh, just my opinion.

1) Yeah you beat the 10s with Harden. But he was the biggest flaw ever seen (together with Lillard and Smart) IMO. His FG% was beyond godlike and just not realistic. Same for his 100% Drive. Never in my Life Ive seen someone taking nearly zero jumpshots.

2) We cant cap all 6 things. Zone, rebs are not causing unrealistic results. Also. Please keep in mind simmers work. Its already a lot work to check all tactics every SIM. Imagine you would have to sumup 6 numbers to see if the strategy is fine. We all are matured enough to Rescpect the rules, but it happens often that someone misscalculates the numbers. Even with only DI/FCP caped.

3) I believe teams that suck now just havent been good ones and maybe had great last year. And other teams that are now on Top just got better this offseason or have a good form and its not necessarily tactic related.

4) Jake might be right. We would have to Test DDS4 maybe. But we cant change within a season anyway.

5) actually Ive more fun compared to the 10 stuff. I change my tactics every game (high Zone against Detroit, low zone/DI against NY, low FCP against Charlotte, etc) instead of just never changing anything like last season.

Just to sum it up. I love that you guys think that much about the problem and Im/we are never against changes, but Im not open to discuss on theory. I dont want to Sound harsh, but if you have idea's please open a new league file, run some tests and let us discuss your results via PM/Facebook or whatever. Because that is what we admins are doing/having done and its way more revealing then discussing thoughts.

[andrei]

Agree, Harden/Lillard/Smart did not care what strategy the other teams had.

I think we already discussed a similar suggestion to Marcos but, like any other idea, there are plenty of people to support and plenty of people to oppose the idea.

I actually like what we have today. I can definitely confirm that MEM is not as good as it was last year. Conley is nowhere near his form last year. Possibly because the lack of fast break removed easy shots for him. Gasol is also struggling against Zone which actually makes sense - a big is supposed to struggle against zone. I don't see a lot of games where you play 10 zone and you got somebody like Favors still dropping 20+ points and 20+ boards on you consistently.

I think the CAP now adds that extra Fun piece where you HAVE to experiment and find the right tactic. You can't just switch everything to 10 and forget about it (like GMs, including me, did last year). Yes, sometimes that means extra losses. Also, that may mean that you have to talk trade but that's also a pretty fun part of being a GM. So overall my personal experience improved.

[emplep7]

Agree 100% with Dennis and Andrei. The all 10s was a major bug that was proved last year and this year. Teams that were great last year are struggling big time and have to adapt to the new strats just like everyone else. Like everyone else said, the only reason you were able to beat all 10s was because Harden was a ridiculous player in the previous version. If you didn't have him, you would have had no chance against a team like Indy last year.

Teams that are now struggling just have to find a way to get in the right players for the new system and they will be fine again. This makes it more fun and challenging rather than just plugging in all 10's and automatically making the playoffs. Its way more realistic now and I think the admins have done a great job with these changes.

[Dennis]

I already prepared the league file from last season to run some Tests. But wont have time for it before 2/20 because of exams. We will test them. So never hesitate to write down ideas.

[Jestor]

The combination of low pace + high zone is killing scoring big men. The way to win now is to have a strong backcourt and defensive/rebounding bigs.

[emplep7]

The combination of low pace + high zone is killing scoring big men. The way to win now is to have a strong backcourt and defensive/rebounding bigs.

Blake Griffin doesn't agree with that statement.

[dapralbe]

I put something similar now to the beast as it says Jestor see the results of currently two wins out, for me this funny mcrobers josh are players with a great jumper and bouncy have I put in the sg and sf and see what happens. are handing ball and go but no sense, san antonio made me 29% shooting, is challenging look now more than pure strategy that type of players adapt.

[Jestor]

The combination of low pace + high zone is killing scoring big men. The way to win now is to have a strong backcourt and defensive/rebounding bigs.

Blake Griffin doesn't agree with that statement.

Oh you mean one of the few players with 80+ scoring who has 20 scoring points higher than anyone else in the starting lineup? That Blake Griffin? He's an outlier. It's still killing scoring big men overall.

[Dennis]

There are examples for both sides. Lopez is an example for Tim's view, Horford, Jefferson, Blake etc for Jon's. I will run more tests at the end of this month.

[Sun Scorched]

Honestly, if we're discussing realism, I think you just make FCP a non-issue by "disabling" it altogether. No team in the NBA plays FCP, but some do play with very high intensity. I think allowing teams to play 10 FCP or 10 Pace is fine. It's not like all teams have the right personell to do that anyways. High pace but poor IQ and you turn the ball over way too often. High defensive intensity and low discipline and your team is in foul trouble.